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How Long Does It Take to Get a Ph.D. Degree?

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Earning a Ph.D. from a U.S. grad school typically requires nearly six years, federal statistics show.

(CAIAIMAGE/TOM MERTON/GETTY IMAGES)

A Ph.D. is most appropriate for someone who is a “lifelong learner.” 

Students who have excelled within a specific academic discipline and who have a strong interest in that field may choose to pursue a Ph.D. degree. However, Ph.D. degree-holders urge prospective students to think carefully about whether they truly want or need a doctoral degree, since Ph.D. programs last for multiple years.

According to the Survey of Earned Doctorates, a census of recent research doctorate recipients who earned their degree from U.S. institutions, the median amount of time it took individuals who received their doctorates in 2017 to complete their program was 5.8 years. However, there are many types of programs that typically take longer than six years to complete, such as humanities and arts doctorates, where the median time for individuals to earn their degree was 7.1 years, according to the survey.

Some Ph.D. candidates begin doctoral programs after they have already obtained master’s degrees, which means the time spent in grad school is a combination of the time spent pursuing a master’s and the years invested in a doctorate. In order to receive a Ph.D. degree, a student must produce and successfully defend an original academic dissertation, which must be approved by a dissertation committtee. Writing and defending a dissertation is so difficult that many Ph.D. students drop out of their Ph.D. programs having done most of the work necessary for degree without completing the dissertation component. These Ph.D. program dropouts often use the phrase “ all but dissertation ” or the abbreviation “ABD” on their resumes.

According to a comprehensive study of  Ph.D. completion rates  published by The Council of Graduate Schools in 2008, only 56.6% of people who begin Ph.D. programs earn Ph.D. degrees.

Ian Curtis, a founding partner with H&C Education, an educational and admissions consulting firm, who is pursuing a Ph.D. degree in French at Yale University , says there are several steps involved in the process of obtaining a Ph.D. Students typically need to fulfill course requirements and pass comprehensive exams, Curtis warns. “Once these obligations have been completed, how long it takes you to write your dissertation depends on who you are, how you work, what field you’re in and what other responsibilities you have in life,” he wrote in an email. Though some Ph.D. students can write a dissertation in a single year, that is rare, and the dissertation writing process may last for several years, Curtis says.

[ READ: What Is a Doctorate or a Doctoral Degree?  ]

Curtis adds that the level of support a Ph.D. student receives from an academic advisor or faculty mentor can be a key factor in determining the length of time it takes to complete a Ph.D. program. “Before you decide to enroll at a specific program, you’ll want to meet your future advisor,” Curtis advises. “Also, reach out to his or her current and former students to get a sense of what he or she is like to work with.”

Curtis also notes that if there is a gap between the amount of time it takes to complete a Ph.D. and the amount of time a student’s funding lasts, this can slow down the Ph.D. completion process. “Keep in mind that if you run out of funding at some point during your doctorate, you will need to find paid work, and this will leave you even less time to focus on writing your dissertation,” he says. “If one of the programs you’re looking at has a record of significantly longer – or shorter – times to competition, this is good information to take into consideration.”

Pierre Huguet, the CEO and co-founder of H&C Education, says prospective Ph.D. students should be aware that a Ph.D. is designed to prepare a person for a career as a scholar. “Most of the jobs available to Ph.D. students upon graduation are academic in nature and directly related to their fields of study: professor, researcher, etc.,” Huguet wrote in an email. “The truth is that more specialization can mean fewer job opportunities. Before starting a Ph.D., students should be sure that they want to pursue a career in academia, or in research. If not, they should make time during the Ph.D. to show recruiters that they’ve traveled beyond their labs and libraries to gain some professional hands-on experience.”

Jack Appleman, a business writing instructor, published author and Ph.D. candidate focusing on organizational communication with the  University at Albany—SUNY , says Ph.D. programs require a level of commitment and focus that goes beyond what is necessary for a typical corporate job. A program with flexible course requirements that allow a student to customize his or her curriculum based on academic interests and personal obligations is ideal, he says.

[ READ: Ph.D. Programs Get a Lot More Practical.  ]

Joan Kee, a professor at the University of Michigan  with the university’s history of art department, says that the length of time required for a Ph.D. varies widely depending on what subject the Ph.D. focuses on. “Ph.D. program length is very discipline and even field-specific; for example, you can and are expected to finish a Ph.D, in economics in under five years, but that would be impossible in art history (or most of the humanities),” she wrote in an email.

Jean Marie Carey, who earned her Ph.D. degree in art history and German from the  University of Otago  in New Zealand, encourages prospective Ph.D. students to check whether their potential Ph.D. program has published a timeline of how long it takes a Ph.D. student to complete their program. She says it is also prudent to speak with Ph.D. graduates of the school and ask about their experience.

Bennett urges prospective Ph.D. students to visit the campuses of their target graduate programs since a Ph.D. program takes so much time that it is important to find a school that feels comfortable. She adds that aspiring Ph.D. students who prefer a collaborative learning environment should be wary of graduate programs that have a cut-throat and competitive atmosphere, since such students may not thrive in that type of setting.

[ READ: 4 Fields Where Doctorates Lead to Jobs.  ]

Alumni of Ph.D. programs note that the process of obtaining a Ph.D. is arduous, regardless of the type of Ph.D. program. “A Ph.D. is a long commitment of your time, energy and financial resources, so it’ll be easier on you if you are passionate about research,” says Grace Lee, who has a Ph.D. in neuroscience and is the founder and CEO of Mastery Insights, an education and career coaching company, and the host of the Career Revisionist podcast.

“A Ph.D. isn’t about rehashing years of knowledge that is already out there, but rather it is about your ability to generate new knowledge. Your intellectual masterpiece (which is your dissertation) takes a lot of time, intellectual creativity and innovation to put together, so you have to be truly passionate about that,” Lee says.

Erin Skelly, a graduate admissions counselor at the IvyWise admissions consulting firm, says when a Ph.D. students struggles to complete his or her Ph.D. degree, it may have more to do with the student’s academic interests or personal circumstances than his or her program.

“The time to complete a Ph.D. can depend on a number of variables, but the specific discipline or school would only account for a year or two’s difference,” she wrote in an email. “When a student takes significantly longer to complete a Ph.D. (degree), it’s usually related to the student’s coursework and research – they need to take additional coursework to complete their comprehensive exams; they change the focus of their program or dissertation, requiring extra coursework or research; or their research doesn’t yield the results they hoped for, and they need to generate a new theory and conduct more research.”

Skelly warns that the average completion time of a Ph.D. program may be misleading in some cases, if the average is skewed based on one or two outliers. She suggests that instead of focusing on the duration of a particular Ph.D. program, prospective students should investigate the program’s attritition and graduation rates.

“It is worthwhile to look at the program requirements and the school’s proposed timeline for completion, and meet current students to get their input on how realistic these expectations for completion are,” Skelly says. “That can give you an honest idea of how long it will really take to complete the program.”

Searching for a grad school? Access our  complete rankings  of Best Graduate Schools.

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How many hours total did your PhD take? Other ( self.PhD )

submitted 7 months ago by [deleted]

• 70 comments

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[–] lochnessrunner PhD, 'Epidemiology' 143 points 144 points 145 points 7 months ago   (10 children)

This is a weird question.

Varies by area of study and program.

I would measure in years.

Mine took 5 years.

[+] randomways comment score below threshold -24 points -23 points -22 points 7 months ago   (4 children)

You could measure in hours. For instance, there was a lab where the PI required 5 12s and a 10 (70 hours a week), no holidays. They were at far more than I was, yet we finished around the same time.

[–] mcpapajohn 52 points 53 points 54 points 7 months ago   (2 children)

That’s psychotic

[–] randomways 19 points 20 points 21 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

Yeah the PI was an assistant prof at the time (going for tenure). She would go home around 3:30 to pick up her daughter and come back around 7 to make sure you were still there. There was another organic chem PI that's average graduation time was, get this, 9 years. And that was the average.

[–] _Shayyy_ 39 points 40 points 41 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

Why would anyone join their lab? That’s insane.

[–] OutTheCircus 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

Naaa it's much harder to measure it in hours. Some weeks I would work 70h to push. Some just the 40h I officially needed to work. In totally, it took a bit over 6 years from the start of my contract until my defense. I don't even think a weighted mean would work.

From estimation with a weighted mean, trying to assess what it could be? ~14,000h

[+] girlwtheflowertattoo comment score below threshold -35 points -34 points -33 points 7 months ago   (4 children)

Honestly it's more of just a conversation topic. "I've spent this many hours doing one thing. In that amount of time I could have completed a phd program or 2 phd programs" for example. Just a fun little chit chat party thing.

[–] [deleted] 32 points 33 points 34 points 7 months ago   (2 children)

Convert it to seconds

[–] [deleted] 21 points 22 points 23 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

I have spent at least 7 seconds on my PhD, that’s for sure

[–] rehpotsirhc 11 points 12 points 13 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

I convert all my PhD-based timescales to units in Planck time

[–] Dada-analyst 16 points 17 points 18 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

Oh honey, you’ve gotta come up with better things to talk about at parties

[–] commentspanda 21 points 22 points 23 points 7 months ago   (25 children)

In Australia you are clearly told to consider it a full time job. Therefore it should be 38hrs a week for 48 weeks a year over 4 years as a minimum. Some weeks I do more, some weeks less. Hours doesn’t really work, as others have said years would be more appropriate.

[–] Edumakashun 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (24 children)

Australian universities require four years minimum? Gosh, in New Zealand it was three years. Maximum. Of course, four years isn't unheard of, but there's not a funding package out there that will continue past 36 months. A friend did their PhD at Witwatersrand in South Africa, and their statutory requirement is two years , which they insist is typical.

[–] Darkest_shader 8 points 9 points 10 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

It seems that your friend did their PhD in Mickey Mouse university.

[–] commentspanda 3 points 4 points 5 points 7 months ago   (22 children)

A PhD is funded for 3.5-4 years full time. You can finish sooner but most don’t.

[+] Edumakashun comment score below threshold -6 points -5 points -4 points 7 months ago   (20 children)

I set a strict schedule and knocked it out in 32 months. My supervisor was like "Cool. All done. Go enjoy yourself for four months and we'll submit it at the 36-month mark." She basically gave me four months of paid vacation, since that's how long I was funded for. I used the time to do my job search. I really do think most PhDs can be finished in that timeframe if the person is able to be disciplined with their time.

[–] geobibliophile 6 points 7 points 8 points 7 months ago   (9 children)

Was your project experimental in any way?

[+] Edumakashun comment score below threshold -11 points -10 points -9 points 7 months ago   (8 children)

That doesn't matter nearly as much as people think it does. Yes, even humanities PhDs have a lot of time-sensitive and grant-sensitive issues to contend with, in addition to sometimes dealing with live subjects who may or may not be cooperative. One also has field work.

[–] Darkest_shader 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

So what your PhD thesis was about and how many papers you published out of it?

[–] Edumakashun -2 points -1 points 0 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

Eight papers, 12 conferences, four invited lectures. The dissertation became a book. Anything else?

[–] geobibliophile 4 points 5 points 6 points 7 months ago   (5 children)

You’re not STEM? Our experiences aren’t comparable. I’d have loved it if equipment failures and repair could be scheduled, and to know ahead of time which experiments would work the way we expected and skip the ones that were going to fail. One whole chapter of my thesis is how not to do a series of experiments.

[–] SelectiveEmpath PhD, Public Health 2 points 3 points 4 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

“WE ARE NOT THE SAME”

[+] Edumakashun comment score below threshold -10 points -9 points -8 points 7 months ago   (3 children)

Neat. I wasn't asking a question, though.

[–] geobibliophile 6 points 7 points 8 points 7 months ago   (2 children)

Perhaps you should acknowledge how fortunate you were in finishing “early” rather than imply you were able to finish because of your ability to schedule, as though anyone could finish a PhD by merely scheduling everything. But if you’re humanities, well, that makes some sense.

I’m skeptical an advisor that would let a student just go away for four months without contributing more to a funded project, since those are funds that could have gone to more research instead of your job search. You’re very lucky indeed.

[+] Edumakashun comment score below threshold -10 points -9 points -8 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

Gawd you're arrogant. And you have zero clue how the process went for me or how I did it; I didn't elaborate.

As for your unsolicited opinions and skepticism? The university gets $100,000 for each research output, to include a PhD thesis. No one lost money, nor was I "lucky." I worked my ass off and brought in substantial grant funding on top of my fellowship, funding which went directly into the university's research.

[–] altobrun 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (8 children)

I think that statement is a little bit biased after your own experience in New Zealand. 32 months is not realistic in Canada though and certainly not in the USA.

In Canada the first 12 months are generally used for classes, studying for your comprehensive exam, and establishing a thesis topic/getting a proposal approved. You rarely get any research done. Afterwards you have 3 years to publish 3 or 4 papers (depending on the university) on top of all your other requirements. That doesn’t account for any snafu’s in data collection/analysis, any one of which could set you back a year. I would guess the majority of Canadian PhD’s last 5 years, some do it in 4 or 6 though.

32 months is much closer to a masters in Canada, as I know a number of people who took around 28 months to do their masters (24 is the expected duration).

[–] Edumakashun -2 points -1 points 0 points 7 months ago   (6 children)

And yet my PhD from NZ is fully equivalent around the world and landed me a tenure track position at a flagship R1. Because the thesis was blind peer-reviewed and examined 100% externally to the university, with two overseas examiners, rather than being “examined” by the same people who supervised it. Sorry if you’re bitter. I did my MA in the US so I understand.

[–] altobrun 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (4 children)

Assuming you're sincere. Canadian PhD's also use blind external examiners. Your completed thesis is sent out, and needs to be approved by them. If approved you move on to the defence which is a combination of your committee and externals.

Additionally, the reason I commented at all was because you made a very bold statement and said it applied to everyone, ignoring the differences in culture/expectations that PhD students have around the globe. You can see why that's dangerous right? A young PhD student from the USA may see your comment and set insane expectations, then think of themselves as a failure when they inevitably (to no fault of their own) don't live up to it.

That's why people are pushing back, not because they're jealous and bitter, assuming everything you said is true it sounds like you're a stand up researcher who found a great program and thrived in it, but because they think your advice is far to broad and can do genuine harm.

[–] Edumakashun -1 points 0 points 1 point 7 months ago   (3 children)

If people think what you say they think, then they’d do well to inform themselves better about the academic world — North America isn’t the alpha and omega — and perhaps deal with their emotional problems.

[–] altobrun 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (2 children)

If you don't care about the only people who would take your advice why comment at all though? Other than to be braggadocious.

[–] Edumakashun -1 points 0 points 1 point 7 months ago   (1 child)

I feel like it’s more a case of people feeling insecure (particularly STEM candidates) than it is about my experience doing a PhD.

[–] geobibliophile 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

No one is denigrating NZ university programs. It’s clear that you have had an atypical experience during your doctoral program. However, you’re portraying it as typical and even easy to do because you kept to a “strict schedule”. We all had to learn time management, so that doesn’t make you unique.

By my 32nd month in grad school I had finished my course work, submitted my thesis proposal and finished my comprehensive exams. That was a typical timeline for my program. I took just about 6 years to complete.

[–] commentspanda -3 points -2 points -1 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

Absolutely - mine certainly could be.

[–] noknam 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

In theory the minimum requirement at my faculty is 2 years of work and 2 publications.

In reality most positions are funded for 3 years and take approximately 4 years.

[–] owlswell_11 15 points 16 points 17 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

My advisor believes it to be 2 hours spanning over 5 years.

[–] AvocadosFromMexico_ 3 points 4 points 5 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

Yeah I’ve probably spent at least two. Maybe even three

[–] Ok_Student_3292 9 points 10 points 11 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

That's like asking 'how long is a piece of string?' My PhD is meant to take 3-4 years.

The best answer I can give you in hours is 10,000, as that's how many hours you need to work on something to be considered an expert, but realistically you'll work more than that.

[–] sindark 18 points 19 points 20 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

One indication is that for more than two years I coded every 20-minute segment of my life as working on my dissertation, sleeping, exercising, or doing anything else - and I tried to make the gold dissertation blocks take up as much of my schedule as possible. I also spent most of my exercise time thinking through how to incorporate the latest comments from committee members.

I would sum up the total effort as about 7 years of working much more than full time.

[–] mttxy 5 points 6 points 7 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

[–] annals_ 2 points 3 points 4 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

[–] Weekly-Ad353 3 points 4 points 5 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

18,000 hours.

[–] No_Train_3677 7 points 8 points 9 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

I tried to calculate it? 65-70 hour weeks, let’s say 48 weeks per year for 5.5 years. Like 18,000 hours?!

[–] Weekly-Ad353 2 points 3 points 4 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

[–] [deleted] 4 points 5 points 6 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

I can't count that high. In my defense, I mostly teach English courses.

[–] idk7643 2 points 3 points 4 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

I haven't finished mine yet, but my PI is super chill and I'm watching the last year PhD student in our lab come and leave and we have 40 holiday days per year. Also we get funding for 4 years.

So I would estimate 7480h including being sick 10 days a year

[–] Tsuruchi1108 3 points 4 points 5 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

Not many yet, but this is only my first semester of coursework.

Still that is an absurd question. Even if you could tally all the active time you were working on your PhD it still doesnt account for all the time it was living in your head rent free.

[–] green_mandarinfish 2 points 3 points 4 points 7 months ago   (2 children)

I would say trying to calculate this would be a big waste of time. 😅

[–] girlwtheflowertattoo 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

hahaha it seems like it! I'm almost sorry i asked.

[–] razorsquare 2 points 3 points 4 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

No clue why you did.

[–] PM_me_PMs_plox 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

[–] mpjjpm 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

What do you consider time spent towards the PhD? Classroom and study hours for required courseS? What about lab work for your PI that’s required to keep the job but not part of the dissertation? Time spent as TA that’s required as part of the program? What about time spent as a TA because you’re interested in teaching and want the experience?

All told, I worked roughly 40 hours/week, 48 weeks/year for four years. That time included everything school related - classes, studying, homework, compensated RA/TA work, TA work completed in exchange for tuition, student committee service, data collection, analysis, and writing my dissertation,

[–] HoyAIAG 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

August 2005 to August of 2011

[–] Lichskorpion 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

9.7k hours so far, in my 6th and final year of PhD (normal in my program). However, that includes many non-essential work such as non-thesis scientific publications, conference presentations, grant/scholarship applications, peer-review, other academic volunteering, training, coding, etc. Just the PhD work could have been a lot shorter, like something like half of that or less.

[–] onewaytojupiter 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

What da hell kinda question

[–] starataneori 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

[–] Live-Research446 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

23489290235 approximately

[–] 0falls6x3 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

10,000 hours is full time for 5 years (50 weeks)

[–] spaceMonkeyMafia93 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

I don't wanna know but thanks for asking

[–] OutTheCircus 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

I don't think it's possible to measure, unless your PI forced you to clock in and out, and even then, I worked a big part of the time.

Some weeks I would work 70h to push. Some just the 40h I officially needed to work. In total, it took a bit over 6 years from the start of my contract until my defense. I don't even think a weighted mean would work.

[–] [deleted] 3 points 4 points 5 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

Hours? Try years.

[–] isaac-get-the-golem -1 points 0 points 1 point 7 months ago   (0 children)

In my first few years, I was working probably 35 hour weeks. Then my teaching requirements were bought out with a grant, and coursework ended, and my lab had a lull in its project pipeline. So... These days I'm working maybe 20 hours, varying between 10-35 depending.

I'm slated to finish in 5 years, maybe stretch to 6.

[–] ProtecHelicopter 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

1200 days until PhD defense

Difficulty: Ironman

[–] Ok-Company3990 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

4 years in BME. 55 hours a week on average. Totally depends on how hard you want to push. If you want to work less, avoid slavedriving (many out there) and toxic labs and leave when needed.

[–] Edumakashun 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

I guess I could respond to this, since I set a rigid schedule for myself: 6,400 hours, give or take a hundred. That's about 50 hours a week for 32 months, start to finish. That was in New Zealand, so it was research only.

[–] SnooHesitations8849 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

5 years, 10hours per days on average.

[–] AeroStatikk 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

Definitely more than 2

[–] DizzyMorning953 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

9 365 6 hrs

[–] RunUSC123 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

More than 40, I'd wager.

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Is it possible to work full time and complete a PhD?

Is it achievable to perform a doctorate while working in a private company (not in college) full time (8 hours per day, 5 days per week)? Or is it too much work or stress?

• 16 Is the work in the private company research for the PhD, or completely unrelated? –  gerrit Commented Mar 20, 2013 at 9:57
• 2 completely unrelated. –  Lobo Commented Mar 20, 2013 at 9:58

17 Answers 17

Each situation is different, and it might be hard to generalise, but roughly speaking, you can see a PhD thesis as requiring about 3-4 years working full time. For some people it might be a bit less, for others a bit more, but that's a good average. In addition, a PhD includes of course "technical" work, but also "academic training", such as learning how to write a paper/thesis, presenting papers at conferences, supervising students, etc.

Now, two cases are possible: either you already have some technical material from past work (e.g., you've been working 20 years in industry), in which case you have already completed some of the 3-4 years, and you mostly need to focus on how to output your work; or you don't, in which case, you still need to complete all of the work.

I've known some people in the first case, and they managed to do a PhD while working full-time. They would usually come in half a day per week (in agreement with their company), and work at home in the evening. In the second case, it seems unrealistic to do both a full time job and a full time PhD. In some fields, you might be able to do a PhD over 7, 8 or even more years (I've heard about someone in history who wrote his PhD in 7 years, while working full time as a school teacher in the mean time), but it might not be the case everywhere.

In addition to Daniel's answer, and including Sylvain's comment, I'd add that some French universities forbid starting a PhD without having some source of income, either through some funding or through a full-time job. Most funding forbid to have a full time job on the side, and if your full-time job is completely unrelated to your PhD topic, then you might have the green light from the administration, but not from the academic institution in charge of the PhD programs.

EDIT: I somehow forgot to mention that the indicated amount time in my answer concerns good PhD, and by good, I mean a PhD that will allow you to get a job in academia afterwards, which mean not only getting the degree, but also getting good publications, good collaborations, good reference letters, etc. If you only care about the title, then you might find some universities happy to make you pay tuition fees to deliver you a diploma after a few years. If you want to go to academia later, then you need to be a junior researcher for a few years, in order to demonstrate that you might be worth hiring as a confirmed researched , and then later as a senior researcher .

• 2 In France, a full time job can be considered a PhD funding. What is forbidden is to do a PhD without a funding or being paid. –  Sylvain Peyronnet Commented Mar 20, 2013 at 17:27
• @SylvainPeyronnet: I meant you can't have a public funding on top of a full time job. At least, that was the rule when I got mine :) –  user102 Commented Mar 20, 2013 at 17:29
• 1 That's still true, you cannot have a funding if you are paid elsewhere. –  Sylvain Peyronnet Commented Mar 20, 2013 at 17:31
• @SylvainPeyronnet: If you were to use your full-time job as a source of funding, do you need to justify it? Or could you for instance work in a restaurant and do a PhD in CS at the same time? –  user102 Commented Mar 20, 2013 at 17:34
• 1 From the administrative point of view, you can : you just have to prove that you will not be without income. But the doctoral school may be difficult to convince. –  Sylvain Peyronnet Commented Mar 20, 2013 at 17:48

I am doing that right now. I have a full time job and am working on a PhD in Computer Science. It is definitely possible, but has been the hardest experience of my life. I am past the hardest part and am wrapping up my first publication. I've also been at it for 3 years (already had my masters degree), so it's taken me much longer to get to this point than it would be for a full time student.

It has been extremely stressful and you can kiss your life outside of work+school goodbye. You will also need to be very good with time management and be aware that over the course of several years, there will be life events that pull you away from school.

When I was deciding whether or not to do it, I vastly underestimated the amount of time and energy required. I'm very glad I stuck with it so far, but I have to say, if I had an accurate picture of the workload I probably would have opted against it.

You need a huge amount of dedication to the goal in order to pull this off. If you have only a casual interest in the degree, then you will probably fail. I think I remember somewhere that the graduation rate for PhD's is around 50/50. Add a full time job on that and the odds are against you. But it is absolutely possible to overcome that with enough effort.

• 16 I would +1 what Nick said. A full time PhD and a full time job is like having two full time jobs. It's very probable to say goodbye to your social life for years. If you live in a relationship, I'd strongly advise to reconsider it as there is a danger to emotionally lose more than what actual benefit it may bring you. –  András Hummer Commented Mar 20, 2013 at 16:30
• :) I'm at the same point as you are, and to make things works my graduation (Law) is very different from the PhD (Computer Science)... –  woliveirajr Commented Mar 21, 2013 at 13:22
• 3 Similar to Nick I am finishing up a Ph.D. in Computer Science. 7 years in and ABD and I've finally admitted I can't be the parent I want to be, the student I want to be, and the worker I want to be all at the same time. It's a sacrifice and I am fortunate enough that at this time I am able to sacrifice the full time work. A full time Ph.D. takes a toll on your health, social life, relationships, family, etc. Compound that with full time work especially in a salaried field. I've seen some people be more successful with paid summer internships. Depends on the industry. –  cs_alumnus Commented Mar 13, 2017 at 18:47
• If you have done job+phd together, does it plays a negative role if you want to stay in Academia as a postdoc? –  Gautam Shahi Commented Mar 11, 2020 at 0:29
• I'm working on a Ph.D. in Technology as well, working full-time. Challenging but possible. Time management is critical to success. You must be willing to sacrifice your daily desires in favor of the long-term goal. –  Thomas Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 11:59

Virtually Impossible .

Doing a PhD is a full-time job that requires vast amounts of commitment in terms of mental effort and time. If the PhD research comes in number two position, then the results will never be very good. Also, not being available in the department to interact with your colleagues and supervisor will severely reduce the benefits you gain from the experience. Even if you finished the PhD, it may not be really worth anything, because you won't have been able to fully commit to doing it well.

On the other hand, you may have staggering genius and be ridiculously productive and have a fountain of energy, and then it should be doable.

• 13 IMHO, if one has staggering genius and is ridiculously productive, then one can probably find a better use of one's time. –  emory Commented Mar 20, 2013 at 12:00
• 7 I love the last sentence... "staggering genius and ..." :) –  paul garrett Commented Mar 20, 2013 at 13:32
• 2 You seem to be implying that German politicians are either staggering geniuses or they are huge frauds . –  Konrad Rudolph Commented Mar 21, 2013 at 12:57
• 6 @KonradRudolph: Indeed, there is another path to a PhD my answer did not consider. –  Dave Clarke Commented Mar 21, 2013 at 13:01
• I know people who have done it. Software engineers working full-time while working towards their Ph.D. on the subject. It helps tremendously when one's line of work aligns with a particular line of research. That most software engineering gigs are quite flexible in scheduling, it also helps. YMMV in other fields, though. –  luis.espinal Commented Jan 14, 2020 at 20:34

The big question here is what you mean by "completing a PhD". At one extreme, there's completing a minimal PhD: choosing the least demanding school that offers a PhD in your field, finding a flexible advisor, and doing only what is absolutely required to get the degree. This could be worth doing in certain circumstances: to develop greater expertise in a personal interest, or for certain sorts of career benefits. (For example, in the U.S. high school teachers with doctorates often receive extra pay, but they are not expected to do any research or really make use of the degree, so there is no need to write an outstanding dissertation.) Completing a minimal PhD can certainly be done while working full time in an unrelated job, if you are very diligent. That's a big if, though. The danger of working full time is that you won't make progress without constant effort. If you slack off or become distracted from your dissertation, nobody will complain since it's not your real job, and you can easily let months or years go by with very little progress. This is a common pattern, with an enthusiastic start that gradually trails off and never actually leads to a completed dissertation.

At the other extreme, you might aim to become a well-known researcher and have an academic career at a top university or industrial research lab. This requires doing far more than the minimal requirements, which is almost impossible while spending 40 hours per week on something else, since you'll be competing against people who are similarly talented and hard working but have an extra 2000 hours per year. It's possible in principle, if you are really exceptional, but most people will just find it too difficult to catch up. For example, imagine a competitor who spends 60 hours per week for 5 years on a PhD. If you can spend only 20 hours after work, it will take you 15 years to put in the same number of hours. Even if you do this, you won't really be in as good a position, since many of your hours will have been spent 10-15 years ago and won't reflect recent research trends. The only way to catch up is to work harder or more efficiently than your competition, and that's difficult if you are competing against the smartest, most diligent people in your field.

Most paths lie somewhere between these extremes, but generally closer to the second case (since all academic or research jobs are very competitive). I would not recommend holding a full-time job while working on a PhD unless you have very modest goals for what you intend to do with the PhD.

The universities that I am familiar with in the US and UK have regulations about the number of hours that can be worked for full time students. These rules would prevent you from being both a full time PhD student and having a full time job.

For example, the UPenn Psychology policy states:

The Department expects full time effort in return for its support during the five years of the program. Thus, students may not engage in outside employment while on departmental support.

and the MIT policy states:

The student interested in working part time off campus, and who is a US citizen or permanent resident, should first speak to his or her research advisor about the nature of the proposed work. The advisor must be assured that the work will not compromise the time that the student is expected to devote to research at MIT, and that the outside work does not compromise or infringe upon patent or intellectual property rights related to the student’s MIT research. The student also must ensure that the outside work does not violate any departmental policy.

There are many universities that take part time PhD students and expect them to be working full time. So yes, one can get a PhD while working full time, but as for the second part of the question

It can be too much work, stress, etc.?

Not only can it be, it likely will be. This is equally true for both full time students without family commitments and part time students with other work and family commitments.

• Along the lines of number of hours, many scholarships, RA-ships, and other sources of funding for students are conditional that the student works a maximum number of hours at a job per week (often 10 or 20). In other words, if you work more than 20 hours a week, you become ineligible for many scholarships and fellowships and therefore will need to start paying for school from your pocket. –  Irwin Commented Mar 20, 2013 at 17:02
• 1 Really? I don't know any university in the US that restricts outside employment for domestic PhD students as a matter of policy. Mine doesn't. (International students are restricted by US law per the terms of the student visa.) –  ff524 Commented Dec 31, 2014 at 5:20
• 1 @ff524 I edited the answer to include links to the two universities I am most familiar with. –  StrongBad Commented Dec 31, 2014 at 9:14
• @ff524 All of the programs I applied to did not allow you to work outside of your graduate work position (e.g. teaching assistant, research) and it is in contract and the handbook. I am sure there are nuances between each school, but the general idea is that the hours expected from you between coursework and your graduate work position put you at full time, and to do any more work than this would overload the student. If you are not taking on funding via your work position, you can work. This might have to do with the fact that each school had a union that negotiated these terms. –  theoreticool Commented Oct 8, 2018 at 5:08

I have done it and do not recommend it. While I did not require an extension of the time required, working a full-time job will generally prevent you from travelling to conferences and from establishing contacts essential for success. You are more likely to end up in a backwater than a vital research area. You become less identified with your research than with your work, which in my case is involves specializations often considered necessary within academia and which are remunerated well outside of academia, but which have low academic value themselves. It has been a struggle changing this perceived identification--I might as well attempt to retrain Pavlov's dogs.

Consider yourself fortunate to have access to academia.stackexchange.com. My relatives were unaware of the commitments involved and provided well-meaning but uninformed advice ("you're smart enough"), not recognizing that scheduling has to be considered independently of ability, effort and experience [see Decio Coviello, Andrea Ichino and Nicola Persico. Don't Spread Yourself Too Thin: The Impact of Task Juggling on Workers' Speed of Job Completion NBER Working Paper No. 16502]. Employers often don't recognize or choose not to recognize the independence of these factors either, so I cannot blame my relatives for bad advice. Most of all I blame myself. I am not proud of the outcome. I had published a paper in the beginning in graduate school, but left the field. It was a mistake not to build on early successes, but the distractions of full-time work made it difficult to absorb the right lessons at the right time.

I was able to complete my PhD while working full time as a consultant. Based on that experience ...

Have a mentor that's done it, preferably one at the school you're thinking about attending. A lot of the 'for profits' have very interesting models for keeping students on track. For me, it was someone who remains an important mentor in my life. Prior to applying, I spoke with her and she mentioned she earned her PhD while working full time as a consultant and then provided some sound advice and encouragement.

Some programs do a better job then others at scheduling graduate level courses so they don't conflict with normal working hours. You might have better luck with a metropolitan university or one that accommodates non-traditional learners.

There is a trade off related to there only being 24 hours in a day. The university experience includes many talks and presentations that enrich all scholars, whether or not the scholarship being presented relates to your area of expertise. The more flexibility you can find in your work schedule to take advantage of these unique opportunities the better you'll be for it.

Plan 2-3 hours out of class for every hour in class except during final project time. Then, plan lots more. Also, the academic calendar and many industry calendars are tied in subtle manners. The client wanting a project completed before everyone goes on varying summer breaks means extra work during final project time for classes.

Have a fairly good idea of what you want to study and/or who you would like to study with sooner rather then later. Find out which professors are able to graduate their students in a timely manner. A lot of time can be spent trying to figure out what you want to write about, and that is time that could be spent either writing or working towards the end goal of graduation with PhD and job still intact.

Have a detailed plan/schedule for your day once you transition from classwork to dissertation work. Practice the plan the last semester you're taking classes. Stick to the plan, even when the alarm goes off at 4am and you were up until 2 taking care of something else.

Some might be luckier, but for me, for both my master's thesis and my PhD dissertation, I had to scale my work hours way back - 6 months for Masters and 12 months for PhD - to be able to produce work at the level I was demanding of myself. This is something that needs to be planned for re material needs.

If you have responsibilities to others (spouse, parents, significant others, kids, some combination of) make sure they're on board as well. I am grateful for the 2 am bottles fed to children as I read through thousands of lines of code because I was up anyway. I'm also forever grateful to my teachers and committee members who understood the work-school-life balance issues and worked with me to be as helpful as was fair.

Finally, know there are a lot of us that viewed earning a PhD as an important milestone in the senior part of our careers. For me, it led to a teaching position in a regional public university that was more rewarding and fun then I had imagined. Hang in there, take it a day at a time, and enjoy what you're learning. Best of luck!

I'm doing it now. The big issue for me was learning how to balance school work with the rest of my life. That's something that needs some thought prior to beginning your program.

Make sure your significant other is TRULY onboard. School takes a lot of time, and resentment can build, if otherwise.

Know how much you can take. I was taking two courses a semester in order to satisfy a university requirement. It was killing me. I'm only taking one course a semester now, but I'm much happier than I was.

Understand how long your coursework stays valid. Coursework only lasts for several years, so plan accordingly.

Make sure your faculty will give you the attention that a full-time student receives. In some programs, part-timers are second-class citizens. Not good.

Try and graduate prior to the fall semester. Appointments usually begin at the beginning of the fall (winter) term. Don't want to wait too long for a position to show up.

That's possible in some fields, impossible in others

I am in TCS, and I know of several high school teachers who obtained a PhD in TCS after a few years. Basically, they were able to work 1 full day on week-end for their research + a few hours during the week. Of course they needed more than 3 years to graduate, but this is possible.

My wife is in history/archeology, and many (more than half of them) PhD students work full-time in library or other places since there are very few fundings. We have friends who graduated after 10 years. In this field it is difficult for those who work full-time in a place unrelated to their studies since access to old sources is needed for doing research. Most of these students took their holidays to go to libraries/museums/field archeology places in foreign countries.

I have relatives in plant biology and in animal biology. It is impossible to complete a PhD in these fields without working full time in a lab. Indeed, most of the time is spent in doing heavy experiments, with living things, which means being available when needed.

During the first year of my doctoral studies I had no departmental support and kept myself indoors and fed by working about 2.5 part-time jobs.

Put bluntly that situation was not sustainable: it was physically wearing me down notwithstanding that I did nothing but work, study, eat and sleep.

Moreover, later in my studies I needed to devote more time to school than I did that first year. Perhaps there are exceptional individuals that could manage it, but if you are merely smart and productive you should not count on managing.

• 1 Your story is very enlightening. –  Lobo Commented Mar 20, 2013 at 17:01

Possible: yes - I personally know two persons who did it. The question is if YOU can do it, not if its possible. If you want to finish your PhD, I'm sure you will somehow get the time to finish. But if you are doing your PhD just to get the title, then you will probably not finish it.

Edit: After 7 years, the last 4.5 of them working full a full time job and raising 4 kids, I managed to finish my PhD. So yes, it's possible :-)

Definitely possible, with a bit of planning and scheduling.

I am in the field of atmospheric physics - my research involved a considerable amount of experimental work and field studies, my timetable and deadlines have been and still is (as I am just completing the research) largely based on a full time equivalent . My full time job is, for the most part, unrelated (high school teaching). I know it has worked, because I am finishing my PhD and have been published multiple times before schedule (2.5 years).

What I have found is that I had to have an 'adaptable' schedule, as things changed week by week. My tasks were broken into

• long term, or semester goals, these were decided at the beginning of each semester.
• weekly goals, the smaller steps that make up the long term goals.

Making contingency plans for the weekly goals is beneficial, for if something goes wrong, there is always a backup.

Make absolutely certain your supervisors/advisors fully understand what your duties are in your paid job and what time requirements are needed. Also, what I found worked was making my workplace aware of the study commitments.

What may sound counterintuitive is to give yourself regular study-breaks - once again, be adaptable in this.

It is possible, as this is how I did my PhD - but it really depends on what subject area you do.

I had a fulltime job (and a part time one as well) - so was working for a combined 44 hours a week. I can say, looking back, it is very hard work, but can be very rewarding .

I would do my work and set aside 3 nights per week (when I wasn't working the 2nd job) for about 3-6 hours in the evening. Also, by the nature of my PhD, I worked on it over the weekend (usually between 25-40 hours a week).

A few things I found helped - A genuine and in-depth love for the subject is extremely important.

Other things that workd for me were:

• Making weekly goals
• Making both my workplace and university adviser aware of what I was doing (I was fortunate that both were supportive).
• Giving myself some time off (every 4th weekend, I did something else).
• Communication when things started to get on top of me.
• Maintaining adequate sleeping, eating and exercise patterns.
• Making time for friends and family - even had a regular poker and chess night.

Also, I coincided some of my leave requests with conferences and meetings with the advisor at the lab (not all the leave time though).

An added bonus are transferable skills gained from the research that can benefit your job, and vice versa - examples can include: time and resource management, research skills etc

My stress levels weren't particularly high at all - but that, of course, won't be the case with everyone.

• 1 I have a high school peer who is preparing for finishing his PhD in Computer Science, while working in a full time job as a manager at Oracle, so it is possible for some fields. –  Nikey Mike Commented Apr 27, 2017 at 10:49

That heavily depends on your PhD mode, if you have to attend classes it would almost impossible, if your PhD just a research then that will be between you and your supervisor unless the university is hiring you as a full-time researcher, I am working on my M.Sc. the first year I had to attend classes and it was impossible to find job, even my part-time job at the time was hard to handle, however, once I've started my research phase recently, I could find a full-time job which I'm starting tomorrow.

Yes it is possible. Just passed my Viva in the last week after submitting at the end of September. I found that in the lead into submitting that I was almost full-time working on the thesis. This may just the way it is or down to my poor time management in the build up. If possible store up your holiday days to use for this final write up period. In the last month I was probably working a day and a half and doing my thesis write up ever other waking hour.

I would hope that it is not impossible as currently I am in the third year of my part-time PhD and hope to complete it.

Some background info:

• I work full-time 5 days a week (9 to 5)
• PhD is in History (completely unrelated to my work)
• PhD is self funded

A number of factors need to be considered for what I think you'll need to be sucessful in obtaining a PhD.

• Time Management. You will need to have a fairly regimented time plan that you can stick to so as to ensure a steady workflow. Just to sum up my weekly time spent on my PhD (and this can always vary depending on other commitments.) About 4 nights a week 6pm to about 10.30pm, Saturday 11am to about 10pm and Sunday about 1pm to 7.30pm.
• Regular meeting with your supervisor. In my own experience about once every 4-5 weeks is enough. A good hour meeting can really refocus your work and every 4-5 weeks means you don't go to long procrastinating or mulling over an idea. Also in this time frame would also have sent a couple of emails. Also I work in a family business so this also gives me the flexibility to be able to arrange meetings with my Supervisor at working hours times.
• Get writing as early as possible. In my first year I had got down about 15,000 words of a draft thesis. Now at the end of the day I may half of that in the final thesis it is a good habit to get into. Set yourself weekly, monthly targets. Sometimes you might get sidetracked, like if you have to prepare a conference paper etc but writing early and often can keep you motivated.
• Be prepared to make sacrifices. For example my last 4 holidays were either solely for research or a mix of holidays and research. (I shouldn't complain too much as I was able to go abroad for these trips.) Also though you are probable going to see less of family etc.
• But also be prepared to take some time off. Don't feel guilty if you go for a night out with friends or take a weekend away from it all. Sometimes you will come back to your PhD work rejuvenated from the time off.
• Don't underestimate the support of your family, friends and colleagues. Most people will want you to succeed and will give you much moral and practical support along the way.

Is it too much work and stress?

It is definably a lot of work, but I would like to think so far it is not to much work. Be aware that your university will possibly have many support structures in place for PhD students. Every year my university run workshops on time management, dealing with stress, how to write a thesis etc. Personally I don't think the stress would be any more than say working 2 jobs but that said I think everyone deals with stress differently.

• Usually we refrain from putting editing comments like “edited” or “update” into an Answer, since StackExchange’s software tracks the changes you make with edits anyway. –  nick012000 Commented Dec 17, 2019 at 21:37
• @nick012000 Good point. Have updated (pun intented!) answer. –  gman Commented Dec 18, 2019 at 14:08

It is possible. But the actual benefit you get from your PhD program is correlated with time spent.

A PhD is not only a title. In the process of obtaining a PhD, you get opportunities for studying a particular topic in-depth, establishing yourself as a member of a particular community of scholars (e.g. by publishing in certain journals or going to certain conferences), acquiring ancillary know-how relevant for an academic professional, etc.

You might complete a PhD program and earn the title, without gaining these other qualifications. And that may be good for you. But when it comes to, for example, landing an academic job, you may be competing with people who have invested more in their development as academic professionals.

This will depend on your program and the policies associated with it. At least where I go for undergraduate studies, it is not allowed because being a PhD student is a full time job and having two full time jobs concurrently would make your life a living hell.

But , there are exceptions. There is this one student who was literally the smartest human being I've seen, who came for undergrad, finishing a double major in only two years, then went straight to being a Computer Engineering PhD student at the same school. He's so madman smart to the point that the department granted him an extension, allowing him to work a full-time job at a local software company in addition to pursuing his PhD because he's so bright even for a PhD student.

Unless you are that type of madman smart, I would take the peanuts style of living for the sake of preserving sanity. But maybe you might be that type of exceptional.

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